Updated: 2019-09-09
[Follow the money. Published 19 Aug 2017 – retroarchleaks]
Ekeeke drama
Bounty drama
Bounty drama: Patreon – August 2017 ($400)
Bounty drama: Patreon – December 2017 ($300 + $30)
Bounty drama: Patreon – April 2018 ($20)
Bounty drama: Patreon – August 2018 ($105)
Bounty drama: Mudlord – September 2018
Bounty drama: Patreon – December 2018 ($470)
RetroArch Limited Liability Company
RetroArch Limited Liability Company, Part 2
Libretro LLC (2018-2019, Dissolved)
Bounty drama: Patreon – April 2019 ($310)
Libretro LLC Second Edition (2019-)
‘Hand that feeds’
Bounty drama: Patreon – August 2019 ($400)
Bounty drama: Patreon – December 2019 ($0)
Bounty drama: Patreon – April 2020 ($100)
Bounty drama: Patreon – August 2020 ($24)
TLDR:
Saturday, 2016-12-10
16:39 < enygmata> if you send the slice of profit coming from non-com cores to their respective projects (i.e. you'd profit from the com-friendly cores), would that still be considered a license break?
16:40 <@Twinaphex> none of these emulator makers are ever going to get a single cent from me
17:01 <@Twinaphex> I mean you have some cocksucker like that on reddit who talks shit about us earning $800 a month
17:01 <@Twinaphex> $800 isn’t fucking jack shit
17:01 <@Twinaphex> a streamer can make $800 in a day
17:04 <@Twinaphex> we start our own company; we make our own FPGA box, our own low-cost ARM Linux box
17:05 <@Twinaphex> the FPGA box will be the more fancy one with added value, the low-cost ARM Linux box is just the regular thing like all these guys have excep far better build quality
17:32 < hunterk> we at least have the infrastructure to not ship with noncomm cores
17:33 < hunterk> we just need to make sure we don't advertise those cores as being part of the commercial product
19:27 < ScHlAuChi> what happens with the other 650?
19:28 <@Twinaphex> $150 goes towards a buildbot server
19:28 <@Twinaphex> another $50 towards other hosting costs
19:28 <@Twinaphex> honestly dude not a lot remains
19:28 <@Twinaphex> and frankly
19:28 <@Twinaphex> it’s none of your business either
Friday, 2017-07-21
22:56 <@Twinaphex> and BTW - after 7+ years of being exploited
22:56 <@Twinaphex> we will no longer deny ourselves money
Friday, 2017-08-04
02:37 <@Twinaphex> I’ve been sitting on the sidelines taking it up the ass for far too many years
02:38 <@Twinaphex> what I mean is - we are going to sell our own hardware
Friday, 2018-01-19
Name: Libretro LLC
Date Formed: 01/19/2018
Tuesday, 2018-02-13
DanteAli> I guess we need to do more shameless marketing
DanteAli> I want to start earning money
DanteAli> big money
DanteAli> with libretro LLC
Handelsnamen: Libretro
Kvk nummer: 74618555
Datum vestiging: 12-4-2019
Ekeeke drama
[Background: Genesis-Plus-GX was already on non-commercial licence, but TwinAphex wanted to add his copyright to prevent re-licencing it in the future - retroarchleaks]
15 Oct 2016
twinaphex: Non-commercial means non-commercial, and I at least want my copyright now on all libretro files. I want there NEVER to be any possibility of somebody being able to 'SELL RIGHTS' for a project that has in its license header 'NON-COMMERCIAL'. Non-commercial has to mean non-commercial or else the license is not worth the txt file it's printed in. This is only fair and right.
15 Oct 2016
ekeeke: I have enough of people just trying to profit of my work without giving a damn fuck about the people who initially wrote that code and made possible to run retro games in their own project. That includes free projects that only see us as a useful ressource or people trying to impose me how I should manage my own projects.
[On 16 Oct 2016 change of license for libretro part of Genesis-Plus-GX was merged by ekeeke. Despite this, TwinAphex accused ekeeke of breaking GPL and 'greed'.
Why that attempt to limit rights of emulator developer is important? Because, according to graphtreon.com, one week earlier TwinAphex created patreon account for The Libretro Team. Making money from emulation started being acceptable, but, as it looks, only for his team. Two months later, a week after disclosure to the public, Libretro patreon exceeded $500 - retroarchleaks]
"Monetary donations will not be accepted. They are a corrupting force, they create entitlement among users, they create friction among teammembers (since attention would shift from the combined passion of the teammembers to make stuff happen and turn into money racketeering instead), and they would absolutely tear this project apart. Therefore, they will never be accepted – to any one teammember in fact.
We will never try to tempt you to buy into donation and Kickstarter Ponzi schemes (which is what they are).
Note – these stances are 100% final and will never, ever be subject to change. We feel very strongly in them. They are intended to piss off what we consider to be unsavoury forces in this current computing landscape that are seeking to corrupt this industry and make a quick buck at it on the side."
from Libretro.com Mission page
[Read RetroArch Limited Liability Company for a punch line - retroarchleaks]
Bounty drama
$650 – reached! per month
Bi-monthly bounties placed for cores and RetroArch so that we can make major progress!
$750 – reached! per month
Monthly bounties placed for cores and RetroArch so that we can make major progress!
$1,106 of $1,800 per month
We will put more money into the bounty system on a bi-montly basis to accelerate progress further!
patreon.com
Saturday, 2016-12-10
01:35 <@Twinaphex> only $6 to go on the patreon
01:35 <@Twinaphex> and we have reached the $650 goal
01:36 <@Twinaphex> once we reach $650
01:37 <@Twinaphex> there will be bi-monthly bounties
01:37 <@Twinaphex> I will put $100 in bi-monthly, and another $50 each month
01:37 <@Twinaphex> once we reach $750 - we will put in $100 each month
[$750 was reached on 4th January 2017 (graphtreon.com) - retroarchleaks]
19:30 <@Twinaphex> we passed the $650 goal now on Patreon
19:30 <@Twinaphex> so bi-monthly bounties will be happening now
19:30 < bparker> is there a bountysource setup yet?
19:30 <@Twinaphex> nope
19:31 <@Twinaphex> we will now have to go and start setting and planning this all
19:31 <@Twinaphex> and we won't start it until January
19:31 <@Twinaphex> when we have all our ducks in a row
Wednesday, 2016-12-28
01:33 <@Twinaphex> starting this January
01:33 <@Twinaphex> we'll pour $150 into the bounty bucket
01:33 <@Twinaphex> if we have reached $750 by then we will do this each month
01:34 <@Twinaphex> then we can start opening bounties on all the stuff that is halfbaked, remaining to be done, etc.
01:35 <@Twinaphex> well I'm still looking for people to help advise me on what kind of bounty system to set up
01:35 <@Twinaphex> I'm hoping hunterk will be instrumental there
01:35 <@Twinaphex> but January is when we'll have to begin
01:36 <@Twinaphex> under the original guidelines - we would chip in $50 for cores, and now $100 per month for other stuff - we have now made it a joint $150 that goes into the bucket
01:36 <@Twinaphex> and each month we will put in another $150 once we have reached the $750 goal
01:36 <@Twinaphex> so it keeps adding up
January:[No bounties - retroarchleaks]
February:[No bounties - retroarchleaks]
March:
Friday, 2017-03-10
23:48 < rappo> Twinaphex, good chat, though. I've added you as the admin of the (auto-created from github) bountysource team... by default you have a salt campaign that allows from one-off and recurring donations, and you can use that money for bounties... and i tossed you $20 :)
Sunday, 2017-03-19
19:12 < mooch2> Twinaphex, the craft core isn't working for me on latest retroarch
19:19 <@Twinaphex> fix it
19:19 <@Twinaphex> we weren’t able to fix it
19:20 <@Twinaphex> there are all sorts of divide by zero errors
19:20 <@Twinaphex> it’s a massively crappy codebase honestly
19:20 <@Twinaphex> what compounds the issues is sqlite
19:20 <@Twinaphex> i guess we could try to prioritize it as a bounty - about $20 max or so
19:21 < ScHlAuChi> no one will fix this for 20$
19:22 <@Twinaphex> then the bounties are useless
19:22 <@Twinaphex> because I’m not paying for your vanity
19:22 <@Twinaphex> let that be for sure
19:22 <@Twinaphex> go look on bountysource
19:22 <@Twinaphex> $20 is plenty for this kind of stuff
19:22 <@Twinaphex> deal with it
19:22 < ScHlAuChi> im not a coder
19:22 <@Twinaphex> I am not spending $50 or $100 on every little bitty shitty thing
19:22 <@Twinaphex> just because you guys want to be greedy
19:22 <@Twinaphex> it’s either this or you get nothing
19:22 < ScHlAuChi> im just saying that the coders i know wouldnt do it for 20$
19:22 <@Twinaphex> OK - then opensource is dead either way
19:23 <@Twinaphex> time to go back to your corporate job and do whatever you want to do instead
19:23 <@Twinaphex> instead of leeching off this project
19:23 < ScHlAuChi> im not talking about me
19:23 <@Twinaphex> I’m talking in general
19:23 <@Twinaphex> about the people who would not want to do it
19:23 < ScHlAuChi> im saying how most ppl today think
19:23 <@Twinaphex> fuck those people
19:23 <@Twinaphex> to be honest with you
19:23 < zeromus> $20 may as well be $0
19:23 < ScHlAuChi> well yes
19:23 < ScHlAuChi> but the other option is that it wont ever get fixed :P
19:24 < zeromus> whether someone does it for $20 is exactly equal to whether someone does it for free.
19:24 <@Twinaphex> I am not a welfare agency for you guys
19:24 < ScHlAuChi> no you dont understand
19:24 < ScHlAuChi> what im getting at is
19:24 <@Twinaphex> go to your government and see how easily you can extract $20 out of them for every little bitty thing
19:24 <@Twinaphex> ScHlAuChi: I think you’re just too negative to be honest - without ever having done any coding to back it up
19:24 < ScHlAuChi> instead of a fixed amount
19:24 < ScHlAuChi> like say 20$
19:25 < ScHlAuChi> what should be done is something else
19:25 < ScHlAuChi> like it slowly rises
19:25 <@Twinaphex> didn’t we already come up with that?
19:25 <@Twinaphex> hunterk?
19:25 <@Twinaphex> but to be honest dude
19:25 <@Twinaphex> more than $20 for this
19:25 <@Twinaphex> is a waste of money on my end
19:25 < ScHlAuChi> say it starts at 20$ and then rises to 10$ more each month
19:25 <@Twinaphex> I’d rather even take the time to do it myself then
19:25 <@Twinaphex> but here is the thing
19:25 < ScHlAuChi> and then eventually someone will pick it up
19:25 <@Twinaphex> this issue doesn’t deserve more money than that
19:25 <@Twinaphex> and that is me being frank
19:25 <@Twinaphex> I am not going to pay for overinflated egos
19:25 < ScHlAuChi> yes but if no one picks it up
19:25 <@Twinaphex> I am going to pay for stuff that I find to be worthwhile for that amount
19:26 < ScHlAuChi> then at least you know its better to do it yourself
19:26 <@Twinaphex> either that or dropping the core
19:26 < ScHlAuChi> say it raises to 100$
19:26 < ScHlAuChi> and no one picks it up still
19:26 < ScHlAuChi> then you know
19:26 <@Twinaphex> I’m done with providing the entire world to people
19:26 <@Twinaphex> while only being ripped off in the process
19:26 < ScHlAuChi> ok the interest is so low
19:26 < ScHlAuChi> either drop the core or fix it yourself
19:26 < ScHlAuChi> thats the only workable solution
19:26 < ScHlAuChi> but at a fixed 20$? no one will do it
19:27 <@Twinaphex> let it be perfectly clear
19:27 < ScHlAuChi> and while i understand your viewpoint
19:27 <@Twinaphex> I am only spending $150 each month
19:27 <@Twinaphex> on this stuff
19:27 < ScHlAuChi> im just saying it wont work
19:27 <@Twinaphex> so if you say a certain issue is going to rise to $100
19:27 <@Twinaphex> I hope you understand that the rest will have to be money outside of us
19:27 <@Twinaphex> because we are only putting $150 into this bucket every month
19:27 <@Twinaphex> so I have to prioritize what I find worthwhile
19:27 < ScHlAuChi> what happens with the other 650?
19:28 <@Twinaphex> and distribute that money accordingly
19:28 <@Twinaphex> $150 goes towards a buildbot server
19:28 <@Twinaphex> another $50 towards other hosting costs
19:28 <@Twinaphex> honestly dude not a lot remains
19:28 <@Twinaphex> and frankly
19:28 <@Twinaphex> it’s none of your business either
19:28 < ScHlAuChi> yeah thats fine
19:28 < ScHlAuChi> im just trying to help here
19:28 <@Twinaphex> and that $150 is per month BTW
19:28 <@Twinaphex> not once
19:28 <@Twinaphex> I have to pay $150 per month now for a buildbot server
19:28 < ScHlAuChi> and i can tell you that i know for sure that NO ONE will do something like this for 20$ :P
19:29 <@Twinaphex> honestly dude
19:29 <@Twinaphex> you are busting my balls over fucking $800 per month
19:29 <@Twinaphex> when a streamer makes that in a day
19:29 < ScHlAuChi> im not!
19:29 < ScHlAuChi> all im saying is
19:29 < ScHlAuChi> if you want issues fixed
19:29 <@Twinaphex> then stop with the whole ‘what remains to the other $650'
19:29 <@Twinaphex> frankly it’s none of your business
19:29 < zeromus> you lack the resources to incentivize development on all your cores
19:29 < ScHlAuChi> it needs a system where it slowly raises
19:29 <@Twinaphex> I don’t like this line of questioning
19:29 < zeromus> your plan all along has been to spread yourself too thin and hope it attracts talent
19:29 < ScHlAuChi> so it will eventually reach something that ppl will pick it up
19:29 <@Twinaphex> zeromus - you are not innocent in that either
19:29 < zeromus> now theres too many cores for you to support
19:29 <@Twinaphex> there is still no libretro core in upstream desmume
19:30 <@Twinaphex> you haven’t lifted a finger on any of it
19:30 <@Twinaphex> so that is another maintenance burden for me there
19:30 < ScHlAuChi> hey no in-fighting
19:30 <@Twinaphex> I decide when there is in-fighting when the stuff is getting unreasonable
19:30 < ScHlAuChi> im just trying to say that in order to fix issues you need a system that attracts people
19:30 < zeromus> ill help out in my own way in my own time. your impatience for world domination isn't my problem.
19:30 <@Twinaphex> i’s damned if you do damned if you don’t here
19:30 < ScHlAuChi> and i tell you 20$ will not have anyone do it
19:31 < ScHlAuChi> casue setting up the compiler alone and getting it compile can take ages :P
19:31 <@Twinaphex> ScHlAuChi: frankly people with a mindset like that should take a 9-to-5 job
19:31 < orbea> ScHlAuChi: i think you point was made, no need to beat the horse dead :)
19:31 < orbea> *your
19:31 <@Twinaphex> so what do you prefer instead? that nobody does it right now for nothing?
19:31 <@Twinaphex> because that is exactly how it would be done right now
19:31 <@Twinaphex> so what’s the difference? your pride?
19:31 <@Twinaphex> the ‘i am worth more’ bullshit?
19:31 <@Twinaphex> take that up with your employer
19:31 <@Twinaphex> I am not your employer
19:32 < ScHlAuChi> its not about that!
19:32 < ScHlAuChi> its about getting issues fixed
19:32 <@Twinaphex> oh but it is
19:32 <@Twinaphex> you are making it about that
19:32 < ScHlAuChi> no im not
19:32 <@Twinaphex> I already told you
19:32 <@Twinaphex> I can invest $150 each month
19:32 <@Twinaphex> into this
19:32 < ScHlAuChi> yes thats ok!
19:32 <@Twinaphex> whatever the rest puts in
19:32 <@Twinaphex> that is all fine and well
19:32 < zeromus> that doesnt affect whether $20 is an efficacious sum
19:32 < ScHlAuChi> the priorise stuff
19:32 <@Twinaphex> just so long as the threshold on my end is $150 per month
19:32 < zeromus> it affects whether spending $20 on ineffective things is wise
19:32 < ScHlAuChi> yes
19:33 < zeromus> you should be trying to buy another major contributor for the whole $150 pot
19:33 < zeromus> imo
19:33 < ScHlAuChi> yeah or that
19:33 <@Twinaphex> OK
19:33 < zeromus> i mean, $150 isnt worth the time a major contributor spends. you dont have enough money to make it worth anyone's time. but you might have enough to make it feel nice for someone who's inclined to contribute anyway
20:20 < ScHlAuChi> nah you misunderstood! im not interested in your accounting!
20:20 <@Twinaphex> the thing is though dude
20:20 <@Twinaphex> 4chan is already running with this
20:20 < ScHlAuChi> im interested in offering realistic solutions!
20:20 <@Twinaphex> so I really didn’t appreciate the questioning
20:20 <@Twinaphex> it sounded weird
20:20 <@Twinaphex> and wrong
20:20 <@Twinaphex> as if I was pocketing something
20:20 < ScHlAuChi> no
20:21 <@Twinaphex> well that is the narrative they are already coming up with
20:21 <@Twinaphex> so please be careful with that from now on
20:21 < zeromus> schlauchi runs an operation similar to yours
20:21 <@Twinaphex> oh which operation is that then?
20:21 < ScHlAuChi> yes and i paid someone to modify emulators before
20:21 < zeromus> any questions he asks about what you do is out of a spirit of camraderie, not holding you accountable or holding your feet to the fire
20:21 < ScHlAuChi> and i just know that its not that easy
20:21 <@Twinaphex> which operation?
20:21 <@Twinaphex> talk specifics
20:22 < ScHlAuChi> getting them to compile alone can take ages
20:22 < ScHlAuChi> im one of the admins for http://www.longplays.org
20:22 <@Twinaphex> which operation? let’s cut to the chase here
20:22 <@Twinaphex> so TAS stuff?
20:23 < ScHlAuChi> nah not TAS
20:23 < ScHlAuChi> but tool assisting helps our casue
20:23 <@Twinaphex> but yeah we already have guys now who are misinterpreting your comments as
20:23 <@Twinaphex> ‘people wouldn’t be so skeptical if RA wouldn’t have seemingly stagnated'
20:24 <@Twinaphex> honestly
20:24 <@Twinaphex> this is why I no longer post stuff on here
20:24 <@Twinaphex> I get attacked from all sides; if it’s not by endusers, it’s by these shits like byuu who profit off our expense
20:24 <@Twinaphex> or it’s by some ripoff artist who has made another lakka box
20:24 <@Twinaphex> then we try to do positive stuff to pull things along
20:24 <@Twinaphex> and all we get back is just negativity
20:24 < ScHlAuChi> my intention wasnt to attack you but to get a realistic sense of what ppl are willing to do for 20$ :P
20:24 < zeromus> who's attacking you? just close your browser tabs.
[Summary:
2016-12-10 - first bounty threshold ($650) reached
2017-01-04 - second bounty threshold ($750) reached
2017-03-10 - bountysource account created
2017-03-19 - first $25 bounty created and paid to a team member after 4chan shit-storm. Patreon money from previous months? Ha.
(Twitter link)
[New disclaimer was added to Patreon page - retroarchleaks]
DISCLAIMER: We are more transparent than most as to how the money will be allocated that we receive. And as the money increases, so will our ability to do more. That being considered, how the money is spent is left at our own discretion, and there is no reasonable expectation beyond that. Commitments that are outlined in the goals will be pursued, but delays are possible depending on time circumstances. We ask for your patience and understanding there in case these issues crop up.
[Clarifying comment from radius - retroarchleaks]
Bounty drama: Patreon – August 2017
[Now, lets check how much from approximately $7500 Patreon money (source of the amount: graphtreon.com) went for bounties. Screenshots were made on 18 Aug 2017 – retroarchleaks]
Libretro patreon supporters
Libretro patreon backers
Sunday, 2017-03-19
19:27 <@Twinaphex> let it be perfectly clear
19:27 <@Twinaphex> I am only spending $150 each month
[$249 from bparker and $150 from libretro = $400. Not even three full months – retroarchleaks]
[I submitted those findings to /r/emulation. Post was approved but two hours later its content was removed and my account was banned with bogus excuse – retroarchleaks]
[Someone (08/23/17) asked TwinAphex about usage of patreon money on 4chan. I allowed myself to mark posts with his unique way of writing – retroarchleaks]
nobody owes you anything or any explanation.
other emudevs put exactly zero money back into the community. so this is a fake controversy by you.
no promises have ever been made that the remainder of the patreon money per month would all go towards bounties. you are really being ridiculous now and picking at straws.
Bounty drama: Patreon – December 2017
[Four months later, $4000 more of Patreon money (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). Screenshots were made on 31 Dec 2017 - retroarchleaks]
Libretro patreon supporters (Archive.is copy from 31 Dec 2017)
Libretro patreon backers (Archive.is copy from 31 Dec 2017)
[Good news: Themaister put $300 into bounties. I assume money came from his own pocket. Bad news: from those $4000 from patrons, only ~$30 went for bounties - retroarchleaks]
[According to graphtreon.com $1000 goal was reached in the beginning of May, with first Patreon.com payment above that amount on June 1st, 2017. It dropped below $1000 level on January 1st, 2018.
Unfortunately, in six months instead of three polls, there was only one. From two cores chosen in that poll, only one was released (PPSSPP), in late August, in very questionable state. Supermodel core?
Nice PR talk, hunterk! Truth is much simpler - after abandoning new PPSSPP core, Squarepusher started playing Dark Souls trilogy on his new patreon-funded gaming desktop(7th Oct), then Demon's Souls on PS3 (14th Oct, 17th Oct), then played Bloodborne on PS4 Pro, then Super Mario Odyssey and The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild on his new Nintendo Switch (5th Nov). Somewhere between them there was also Doom, Cupcake on PC and I think I still missed something. Everything in 10 weeks! At the cost of patreon 2 polls and 5 new cores - retroarchleaks]
Bounty drama: Patreon – April 2018 ($20)
[January - April, $5200 from Patreons (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). Screenshots were made on 26 Apr 2018 - retroarchleaks]
Libretro patreon supporters (Archive.is copy from 26 Apr 2018)
Libretro patreon backers (Archive.is copy from 26 Apr 2018)
[Bountysource changed design of its web page. I checked recently opened and paid out bounties, and I think that correct amount of given money is in "Backers" section. For TwinAphex, it rose from $150 to $170. Also, still no Supermodel core, no new polls - retroarchleaks]
Bounty drama: Patreon – August 2018 (105$)
[May - August, $5700 from Patreons (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). Screenshots were made on 27 Aug 2018 - retroarchleaks]
[TwinAphex, from $170 to $275. Bparker moved $700 from his Irssi bounties to Libretro, again taking first place on the backers list. Thank you, bparker. Also, still no Supermodel core, no new polls. 4chan comment:
Bonus: accounting - retroarchleaks]
Thursday, 2018-06-21
03:29 <Autechre#6315> BTW @hunterk - did you transfer the $50 over to my bountysource account?
03:29 <hunterk#7816> i did
03:29 <Autechre#6315> cool
03:29 <Autechre#6315> thanks
03:29 <Autechre#6315> I will add that to the reicast bounty then
03:29 <hunterk#7816> np, but i can't keep doing that
03:29 <Autechre#6315> hopefully that guy will finally fix it then
03:29 <hunterk#7816> yeah, fingers crossed
03:29 <Autechre#6315> @hunterk yeah well - it sucks for me too that paypal banned me for no reason
03:29 <Autechre#6315> and they banned my entire bank account
03:29 <Autechre#6315> I tried creating a new account years later
03:29 <Autechre#6315> and it seems money still can't be transferred to it
03:29 <Autechre#6315> it got banned because 'selling emulators 'even though I never sold a single emulator
03:30 <Autechre#6315> and ever since then - I have not been able to use anything paypal
03:30 <Autechre#6315> it's completely arbitrary logic
03:30 <Autechre#6315> so honestly that makes me reluctant to want to have anything to do with paypal again
03:30 <Autechre#6315> the only thing I could try is making a business account for the company
03:30 <Autechre#6315> but honestly since it would still be going through the same bank account
03:30 <Autechre#6315> it likely wouldn't work again
03:30 <Autechre#6315> so I am in a tough spot there
03:30 <Autechre#6315> since all these websites all want to use this service
03:30 <hunterk#7816> you're needing to open a business bank account, too, so that should be totally separate
03:31 <Autechre#6315> I still don't know how that would work - I need to call somebody from my family about that
03:31 <Autechre#6315> it is more difficult for me being a Dutch citizen
03:31 <Autechre#6315> I need to know how taxation is going to work
03:31 <Autechre#6315> in both these countries
03:31 <Autechre#6315> and what is best financially
03:32 <hunterk#7816> my paypal isn't tied to my bank account anyway
03:32 <hunterk#7816> it's just a plain ol' paypal account with a credit card number attached to it
03:32 <Autechre#6315> does paypal accept money transfers with prepaid credit cards?
03:32 <hunterk#7816> hmm, dunno about that
Bounty drama: Mudlord – September 2018
Monday, 2018-09-17
[Source: Mudlord via /emugen/ – retroarchleaks]
21:42 <mudlord#2835> this is barking up the wrong tree
21:42 <mudlord#2835> I am done
21:42 <mudlord#2835> Forget entirely what I said
21:42 <mudlord#2835> @Autechre
21:42 <mudlord#2835> do what you will
21:42 <mudlord#2835> The info is there
21:46 <Autechre#6315> you went too far now by posting PMs
21:47 <Autechre#6315> I can no longer trust you
21:47 <Autechre#6315> so I guess if you want to be banned
21:47 <Autechre#6315> I can do that for you
21:48 <Autechre#6315> sorry it had to end like this but as usual you need to start picking fights with people who have done nothign to you
Wednesday, 2018-09-19
[Hollywood accounting, 1500$ (patreon) - 350$ (servers) = 0 - retroarchleaks]
01:20 <Autechre#6315> some idiotic nobodies on 4chan have something to say about a patreon
01:20 <Autechre#6315> while an entire industry is directly making money off us
01:21 <Autechre#6315> we are not allowed to survive
01:21 <Autechre#6315> or pay for these $350+ server bills
01:21 <Autechre#6315> we get accused of 'pocketing' or whatever
01:21 <Autechre#6315> they can all go suck a big fat massive dick
01:21 <Autechre#6315> as far as I am concerned
01:21 <Autechre#6315> at this point
21:49 -!- mudlord <mudlord@rebote.net> has joined #retroarch
21:49 < mudlord> @bparker
21:49 < mudlord> I think dante missed a spot
21:54 < mudlord> do bans from discord also apply here?
22:23 < crt> Lol wut
22:26 < mudlord> yeah
22:27 < mudlord> autechre banned me for me not agreeing with the patreon
22:27 < crt> So you didn’t really break a rule ?
22:28 < mudlord> well he considered me starting to doubt the patreon as a sign of treason
22:28 < mudlord> and so i was permabanned
22:28 < crt> Hahahahaha sounds like a spergking
22:29 < mudlord> yeah, i just think some things dont quite add up and i got banned
22:30 < crt> Yeah sounds like typical behaviour of those types
22:31 < crt> I had some guy flipping out here telling me I was another guy they banned
22:31 < mudlord> i mean, RA/Libretro itself is fine
22:31 < mudlord> the project is fine
22:32 < mudlord> the problem is that for some reason the head person is like linus torvalds and even linus woke up eventually to his dictatorship
22:32 < mudlord> i mean i want to code to have fun, not be belittled
22:33 < mudlord> for saying for me personally something doesnt seem right with the patreon
22:53 < crt> Ya
23:18 <Autechre#6315> mudlord - you can disagree with the patreon all you want
23:18 <Autechre#6315> we can't survive off the goodwill of others anymore - we have at least $350+ bills to pay for servers
23:19 <Autechre#6315> and frankly if this is all you came here for - to turn people against the patreon and cause problems for us
23:19 <Autechre#6315> I regret I didn't ban you from here as well
23:20 <Autechre#6315> I am no longer tolerating shitposting or messing with our project at this point
23:20 <Autechre#6315> don't like it - don't like what we do - fine - stop the lynchmob mentality, stop turning people against us
23:20 <Autechre#6315> I have defended you for years - we all know you have issues - we all know you turn against people at the drop of a hat
23:20 <Autechre#6315> no more
23:20 <Autechre#6315> take your meds
23:20 <Autechre#6315> make something of your life
23:20 <Autechre#6315> and if you are going to turn against the people that have done nothing but try to be nice to you and sympathetic
23:20 <Autechre#6315> you no longer belong here
23:21 <Autechre#6315> now - can you agree to stop this nonsense now or do I need to ban you from here as well?
23:21 <Autechre#6315> I'm not going to ask nicely again
23:25 <Autechre#6315> crt - the same warning goes to you as well - 'sounds like a spergking' - never, ever disrespect any mods on here again
23:25 <Autechre#6315> show some common respect or get out
23:26 <Autechre#6315> mudlord - the real reason you were banned is because you were posting PMs (when I previously assumed a certain level of trust from me) in an effort to try to get some lynchmob mentality going against me
23:26 <Autechre#6315> that is not going to be tolerated for obvious reasons
23:27 <Autechre#6315> again - dude - take your meds, stop irrationally lashing out against people that have continued to be sympathetic towards you for years despite all the issues you hav
23:27 <Autechre#6315> we are sick of this
23:27 <Autechre#6315> we are sick of having to deal with you like some baby that can get unruly at any one time
[How ironic! - retroarchleaks]
23:27 <Autechre#6315> others wanted you banned multiple times ago in the past
23:27 <Autechre#6315> I always defended you but in hindsight I was probably stupid for doing this
23:28 <Autechre#6315> since here you are and you start causing issues for us too
23:42 <Autechre#6315> so - in short - mudlord/crt - you guys can remain here, but don't cause problems for us
23:42 <Autechre#6315> as simple as that
23:42 <Autechre#6315> if I see this again you will get banned
23:42 <Autechre#6315> as simple as that
23:43 <Autechre#6315> I don't want to sound like some tinpot dictator here and I'm not but I won't tolerate anymore people causing problems for our project - getting lynchmob/gang stalking going on
23:43 <Autechre#6315> I am tired of this stress and general frustration, and anybody I see contributing to that now - will get banned
23:44 <Autechre#6315> I am sorry it has to come to this but you guys don't recognize just how damaging this continuous shitstirring is to the project and it seems you understand only one language
[Autechre's daily shitstirring on 4chan of course is acceptable - retroarchleaks]
23:53 -!- DanteAlighieri64 <~Libretro@> has quit (Quit: Leaving)
23:53 -!- Twinaphex <~Libretro@> has joined #retroarch
23:53 -!- mode/#retroarch (+o Twinaphex) by ChanServ
23:53 -!- mode/#retroarch (+b *!*@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mtbdxwzjtbbcqdmw) by Twinaphex
23:53 -!- crt was kicked from #retroarch by Twinaphex (crt)
23:54 -!- mode/#retroarch (+b *!*@rebote.net) by Twinaphex
23:54 -!- mudlord was kicked from #retroarch by Twinaphex (mudlord)
23:55 <@Twinaphex> to everybody else - I'm sorry it had to come to this
23:56 <@Twinaphex> I just don't want to deal with this anymore and the continuous headaches guys like this cause
23:56 <@Twinaphex> we just want to work on our project, make it better
23:56 <@Twinaphex> not having to deal with hate all the time
23:56 <@Twinaphex> and shitstirring
23:56 <@Twinaphex> from a very minor minority
[What happens with the other 1000? We still don’t know – retroarchleaks]
Bounty drama: Patreon – December 2018 ($470)
[September - December, $5450 from Patreons (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). Screenshots were made on 30 Dec 2018 - retroarchleaks]
[TwinAphex, up from $275 to $745. Good! Bparker, I guess, moved bounty money somewhere else.
Still no Supermodel core, no new polls - retroarchleaks]
RetroArch Limited Liability Company
Sunday, 2017-03-19
16:38 < ScHlAuChi> does RA allow commercial usage?
16:38 < ScHlAuChi> why not just change the licence of RA to not be allowed commercially?
16:39 <@Twinaphex> not GPL-compatible
16:39 <@Twinaphex> retroArch was made in simpler times when everybody just licensed as GPLv3 as the de-facto license
16:39 <@Twinaphex> back in 2010 or so
16:39 < enygmata> if you send the slice of profit coming from non-com cores to their respective projects (i.e. you'd profit from the com-friendly cores), would that still be considered a license break?
16:40 <@Twinaphex> none of these emulator makers are ever going to get a single cent from me
16:40 <@Twinaphex> if this is how they have treated us at this point
16:40 <@Twinaphex> this guy has made at least more than $2000 off Hyperkin
16:40 <@Twinaphex> off our misfortune
[He meant byuu.
Libretro patreon January-March 2017 = ~2400USD.
January-August 2017 = ~7500USD
source: graphtreon.com - retroarchleaks]
16:54 <@Twinaphex> well
16:54 <@Twinaphex> I have had enough
16:54 <@Twinaphex> and we will take the appropriate steps
16:54 <@Twinaphex> that’s all I can say
16:54 <@Twinaphex> in an industry that is scummy ; and a scene that is scummy
16:54 <@Twinaphex> there is no honor among thieves
16:54 < ScHlAuChi> well waht can you actually do?
16:55 < ScHlAuChi> is there a way to escape the GPL?
16:55 < larrykoubiak> sue them for violation of gpl
16:55 <@Twinaphex> we are going to take back what is ours
16:55 < ScHlAuChi> larrykoubiak: what if they didnt violate GPL?
16:55 <@Twinaphex> likely some kind of official retroarch FPGA box or whatever and then also some kind of official arm soc box
16:55 <@Twinaphex> except this stuff will actually be decent
16:55 < larrykoubiak> highly doubt they didn't, specially since they sell emulators they KNOW they can't sell
16:55 < larrykoubiak> snes9x etc...
16:55 < ScHlAuChi> ah
16:56 < ScHlAuChi> didnt know those were also included
16:56 < larrykoubiak> we've been there several times, they do it anyway thinking they'll get away with it
16:56 < ScHlAuChi> do they get away?
16:56 < larrykoubiak> and RA clearly has stated in each core that they're not for sale
16:56 < larrykoubiak> yes they do
16:56 < larrykoubiak> when it's not allcade, it's the fake retropie
16:56 <@Twinaphex> well
16:56 < ScHlAuChi> so GPL-violations.org etc dont care?
16:56 <@Twinaphex> technically you could shut this down
16:56 <@Twinaphex> the allcade thing that is
16:57 <@Twinaphex> it has emulators in it which are noncommercial
16:57 <@Twinaphex> but
16:57 <@Twinaphex> is it worth the time effort?
16:57 < larrykoubiak> those lawyers don't care about emulators
16:57 <@Twinaphex> is it worth the time to go on twitter and raise hell about this?
16:57 <@Twinaphex> and just be in a never ending cycle doing this?
16:57 <@Twinaphex> I think not
16:57 < ScHlAuChi> well
16:57 < larrykoubiak> but yeah technically there's ground for suing
16:57 < ScHlAuChi> you could raise the flag on tiwtter to warn ppl
16:57 < ScHlAuChi> thats better than not letting them know
16:57 < ScHlAuChi> like
16:57 <@Twinaphex> if I do that then the guy will respond too
16:57 < ScHlAuChi> "dont buy this thing its illegal"
16:57 <@Twinaphex> and we get embroiled in yet another negative drama
16:57 <@Twinaphex> fest*
16:58 < ScHlAuChi> well let him
16:58 < ScHlAuChi> point to the licence
16:58 <@Twinaphex> and that starts to taint the project
16:58 <@Twinaphex> as a whole
16:58 <@Twinaphex> we have few friends in this industry
16:58 <@Twinaphex> nobody who wants to help
16:58 <@Twinaphex> and I have already alienated enough people
16:58 < Scroom> "We do not belive you should paid for ra"
16:58 < Scroom> Perfect contra ;)
16:58 <@Twinaphex> we are not getting anywhere with this approach
16:58 < larrykoubiak> yeah the name and shame works only sometimes
16:59 < larrykoubiak> sadly you'd need to like up the ante and do what those cunts do : trademark RA
16:59 < ScHlAuChi> that could work
16:59 < larrykoubiak> i guess that's why linus finally did it
16:59 < larrykoubiak> too many trolls
16:59 < ScHlAuChi> but waht stops them from just removing the name in the source?
17:00 < larrykoubiak> you can still show it's the same
17:00 < larrykoubiak> mudlord would have no issue showing it, most of us actually :p
17:00 <@Twinaphex> and how will I trademark retroarch if these bloodhounds on reddit even want to deny us a trifling $800 every month?
17:00 <@Twinaphex> you know how much that costs for the entire world?
17:00 < larrykoubiak> yeah i know
17:01 < larrykoubiak> it's prohibitive
17:01 <@Twinaphex> I mean you have some cocksucker like that on reddit who talks shit about us earning $800 a month
17:01 <@Twinaphex> $800 isn’t fucking jack shit
17:01 <@Twinaphex> a streamer can make $800 in a day
17:01 <@Twinaphex> not a month
17:01 < larrykoubiak> but sidenote : fuck reddit
17:01 <@Twinaphex> fuck off with this bullshit
17:01 < ScHlAuChi> if RA was closed source it would make 20k a month ;)
17:01 < larrykoubiak> no it wouldn't cheeky
17:01 < ScHlAuChi> it was a dig at cemu ;)
17:02 < larrykoubiak> i know :p
17:02 < ScHlAuChi> well what could be done is something cheeky - but that only works once
17:02 < ScHlAuChi> if their code is based on standard Retroarch
17:02 < ScHlAuChi> and they are assumingly not that smart
17:02 < larrykoubiak> they just released an "update" of their os
17:02 < ScHlAuChi> why not hide something in the code
17:03 < ScHlAuChi> that displays a message?
17:03 < larrykoubiak> basically with the new features of RA
17:03 < larrykoubiak> fucking cocksuckers
17:03 < ScHlAuChi> something like
17:03 < ScHlAuChi> "if you pad for this you have been screwed over"
17:03 < ScHlAuChi> hiding it in the code somewhere so they wont find it easily
17:03 < larrykoubiak> dude they're not hiding shit
17:03 < ScHlAuChi> and that is displayed when they update their "OS"
17:03 <@Twinaphex> ScHlAuChi: I remember something like that in other projects
17:03 < larrykoubiak> they just clone lakka, removed 3 files
17:03 <@Twinaphex> but I don’t think it matters
17:03 < larrykoubiak> it's in plain sight
17:03 <@Twinaphex> people won’t mind
17:04 < ScHlAuChi> hmm
17:04 <@Twinaphex> they will pay for the convenience of having this guy set everything up for them
17:04 <@Twinaphex> so they don’t have to
17:04 < ScHlAuChi> yeah possibly
17:04 <@Twinaphex> and since no industry power is doing anything
17:04 <@Twinaphex> and no industry power wants to work with us
17:04 <@Twinaphex> or anything
17:04 <@Twinaphex> I say
17:04 <@Twinaphex> fuck it
17:04 <@Twinaphex> we start our own company; we make our own FPGA box, our own low-cost ARM Linux box
17:05 < larrykoubiak> lol FPGA box
17:05 <@Twinaphex> the FPGA box will be the more fancy one with added value, the low-cost ARM Linux box is just the regular thing like all these guys have excep far better build quality
17:05 < larrykoubiak> it would sell indeed
17:05 < Scroom> Twinaphex, do that but all you make your customers pay for is the hardware
17:05 < Scroom> then you can make a lowcost powerful machine and fuck all lakkaware copy cats over :P
17:06 <@Twinaphex> yes
17:06 <@Twinaphex> the ARM linux box will be the cheap one
17:06 <@Twinaphex> with the FPGA one we can have nicer things like maybe lower input latency; faster video rendering; whatever
17:06 < ScHlAuChi> if it has official RetroArch branding it could work
17:06 <@Twinaphex> we need to first research what we can do with RA on FPGA
17:06 <@Twinaphex> what needs to be moved on hardware
17:06 <@Twinaphex> what should stay on software
17:06 < ScHlAuChi> casue then you can lock out all the others using it
17:06 <@Twinaphex> also
17:06 <@Twinaphex> we wanted to do an open design for FPGA
17:06 < ScHlAuChi> or at least make it more expensive for them
17:07 <@Twinaphex> of course that will mean people can rip us off again
17:07 <@Twinaphex> however
17:07 < orbea> open hardware designs :)
17:07 < Scroom> Just make it dirt cheap ;)
17:07 < ScHlAuChi> as they would have to change the name and stuff
17:07 <@Twinaphex> I think the barrier to entry for FPGA is higher
17:07 <@Twinaphex> than say reselling an ARM box
17:07 < orbea> likely
17:07 <@Twinaphex> so you guys think this is a good strategy?
17:07 <@Twinaphex> I mean I would like it to be open
17:07 <@Twinaphex> unlike all these other FPGA thingies
17:07 <@Twinaphex> since I think it’s scummy
17:07 <@Twinaphex> that they don't
17:30 < larrykoubiak> i think you have to be ok with the fact that morons pay for stuff they could get for free
17:30 < larrykoubiak> and that scumbags will profit
17:30 <@Twinaphex> larrykoubiak: then we will set up our own hardware company
17:30 <@Twinaphex> to cater to these same people
17:30 < hunterk> off-the-shelf ARM trash is *almost* to the point of running bsnes-performance now, i think
17:30 <@Twinaphex> but I am not going to sit by any longer
17:30 < larrykoubiak> yeah i agree
17:30 <@Twinaphex> and get abused
17:30 <@Twinaphex> like this
17:30 <@Twinaphex> I am done at this point
17:30 <@Twinaphex> none of the emulator authors are honorable either
17:30 <@Twinaphex> they all seek to profit off our misfortune as well
17:30 <@Twinaphex> so I am done
17:30 <@Twinaphex> so if that is what it is
17:31 <@Twinaphex> I will just do the stuff that I have denied myself from doing for so long
17:31 <@Twinaphex> there is no honor among these thieves
17:31 < larrykoubiak> but that's a bad can of worm to open though
17:31 <@Twinaphex> what is a bad can of worms to open?
17:31 < larrykoubiak> selling hardware
17:31 <@Twinaphex> why?
17:31 <@Twinaphex> are you stopping these guys right now?
17:31 < larrykoubiak> who gets paid, etc...
17:31 <@Twinaphex> you or anybody else?
17:32 < larrykoubiak> nope i can't
17:32 <@Twinaphex> do I see anybody doing anything?
17:32 <@Twinaphex> do I see any hardware company doing anything against it?
17:32 <@Twinaphex> any industry power?
17:32 <@Twinaphex> any emulator author? hah, they just want to profit off it as well
17:32 < larrykoubiak> dude i agree
17:32 < hunterk> we at least have the infrastructure to not ship with noncomm cores
[But you ship them anyway with some console ports like Wii U, 3DS, PSP, Vita - retroarchleaks]
17:32 <@Twinaphex> my ideal perspective on this is
17:32 <@Twinaphex> is that we don’t bundle it with cores - but instead rely on the infrastructure
17:33 <@Twinaphex> to be able to just download the cores
17:33 < larrykoubiak> yeah that's fair
17:33 < larrykoubiak> have to restore lakka's online updater then
17:33 < hunterk> we just need to make sure we don't advertise those cores as being part of the commercial product
17:34 <@Twinaphex> with RetroArch FPGA - it will first have to be researched of course
17:34 <@Twinaphex> we are not going to announce anything prematurely
[October 2016 - heroic fight for non-commercial ideals.
March 2017 - 'entrepreneur' is planning how to bypass non-commercial licences.
History repeats ... first as tragedy, then as farce - retroarchleaks]
Friday, 2017-07-21
22:55 <@Twinaphex> Hail_Spacecake: the problem is that there is no real particpating spirit anymore
22:56 <@Twinaphex> and most of the people in this scene are just looking to make money off a retro gaming craze
22:56 <@Twinaphex> by using other people’s stuff
[Ironic - retroarchleaks]
22:56 <@Twinaphex> and BTW - after 7+ years of being exploited
22:56 <@Twinaphex> we will no longer deny ourselves money
22:56 <@Twinaphex> I’ve had enough
22:56 <@Twinaphex> since nobody here wants to help us
22:56 <@Twinaphex> when facing these issues
22:56 <@Twinaphex> and the contributor base is close to zero while continually having to do more and more
Friday, 2017-08-04
02:36 <@Twinaphex> I can tell you this much - we have never received so much as a single penny from any of these companies
[Same as emu developers from your patreon, right? - retroarchleaks]
02:37 <@Twinaphex> while users have so far provided everything we ever got to us
02:37 <@Twinaphex> so thanks for that
02:37 <@Twinaphex> and fuck this worthless parasitic bullshit industry
02:37 < sentinelprime> Twinaphex: i'm not surprised.
02:37 < sentinelprime> chewing on open source is a good business model
02:37 <@Twinaphex> well if that’s what it’s come down to
02:37 <@Twinaphex> then we are getting involved
02:37 <@Twinaphex> I’ve been sitting on the sidelines taking it up the ass for far too many years
02:38 < sentinelprime> even if you managed to find a lawyer who'd go after them for free, they'd only need to release the code in a compatible way.
02:38 <@Twinaphex> what I mean is - we are going to sell our own hardware
02:38 <@Twinaphex> I’m not going to sue anybody - that is a foolhardy thing
02:38 <@Twinaphex> it’s all dirty rags
02:40 < sentinelprime> Twinaphex: start small. maybe a branding deal with a RPi case fab?
02:40 <@Twinaphex> of any value
02:40 <@Twinaphex> sorry but we are above that
02:40 <@Twinaphex> we pretty much power 95% of all these Rpi thingies
02:40 <@Twinaphex> that would be aiming way way too low
02:41 < sentinelprime> well, where are you planning to aim?
02:41 <@Twinaphex> no we have some better ideas
02:41 <@Twinaphex> sorry but I’m not making those things public so far
02:41 < sentinelprime> oh.
RetroArch Limited Liability Company, Part 2
Saturday, 2017-09-30
03:39 <@Twinaphex> in any case
03:39 <@Twinaphex> it further reaffirms
03:39 <@Twinaphex> that we are only doing ourselves damage
03:39 <@Twinaphex> by not having an official box
03:39 <@Twinaphex> everybody and their grandmother is making money off our stuff
03:39 <@Twinaphex> time to at least put something official out there so the money at least goes our way offsetting some of all the time and effort that goes into all this
03:40 <@Twinaphex> we have a license that relies on the law
03:40 <@Twinaphex> except nobody works that way
03:40 <@Twinaphex> the law is the very last resort
03:40 < gadesx_> yes, and they have websites selling that full of roms
03:40 <@Twinaphex> they turn to
03:40 < webgeek1234> Is the fpga project making progress? That the idea for the official box?
03:40 <@Twinaphex> the fpga project will not be our first box
03:40 <@Twinaphex> since that will require lots of additional resources
03:41 <@Twinaphex> the fpga project would be too financially challenging for a first take
03:41 <@Twinaphex> we can do that after the first box isa proven success
03:41 <@Twinaphex> first we need to get experience in this field and we need to have a proven track record to ship something
03:42 <@Twinaphex> nintendo is not making our lives easier
03:42 <@Twinaphex> with this nes/snes mini exploitative stuff
[I think Nintendo has some legal and moral rights to sell nes/snes minis... - retroarchleaks]
03:42 <@Twinaphex> that is setting the ball rolling for all these entrepreneurs
03:42 <@Twinaphex> to parasitize off this stuff
03:42 <@Twinaphex> so since we have no capability to fight this
03:42 <@Twinaphex> the only thing left is launching our own official hardware
03:42 <@Twinaphex> otherwise we become victims of our own success
03:43 < orbea> i think shipping quality hardware could be a good investment for libretro
03:43 <@Twinaphex> that’s what I want to do yeah
03:43 <@bparker> ScHlAuChi: nah, I haven't turned on my famicom mini in ages
03:43 <@Twinaphex> and I want something that will be capable of both GL and Vulkan
03:43 <@Twinaphex> and something we can comfortably support for the next two years
05:58 <@Twinaphex> now you can see what the games industry really is
05:58 <@Twinaphex> behind all the smokes and mirrors
05:58 <@Twinaphex> pretty much a scam industry
05:59 <@Twinaphex> that cries ‘muh copyright’ and ‘muh illegal’ only when it suits them
[Ironic, mudlord cracking cemu openly on #retroarch few months ago didn't bother you - retroarchleaks]
Wednesday, 2017-10-18
16:11 < bparker> Twinaphex: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-149#entry3869431
16:11 < bparker> kevtris confirms the super nt is fpga, and he wrote the core
16:13 <@Twinaphex> I don’t really care about this thing to be honest
16:13 <@Twinaphex> or about him
16:13 <@Twinaphex> but good for him
16:13 <@Twinaphex> and in the end there is no source so nothing can be proven or disproven anyway
16:13 <@Twinaphex> I never made the claim BTW that it was some existing SNES core or whatever
16:14 <@Twinaphex> I think others speculated that
16:14 <@Twinaphex> it’s more to the point that I just don’t care much about it
16:14 <@Twinaphex> it’s a smoke and mirrors FPGA thingie - all closed-source
16:14 <@Twinaphex> all just to fill somebody’s coffers
16:14 <@Twinaphex> with nothing going back into the community
16:14 <@Twinaphex> I fail to see the point behind that
16:14 <@Twinaphex> not to mention it appeals to a niche of a niche
16:14 <@Twinaphex> who still has time and roomf or all these old carts
16:14 <@Twinaphex> that must be an ageing 30+ demographic by now
16:15 <@Twinaphex> and I think also the whole input lag thing is vastly overstated
16:15 <@Twinaphex> with RA it is really not a problem
16:15 <@Twinaphex> if you use the right drivers
16:15 <@Twinaphex> set up the right buffering ms
16:15 <@Twinaphex> then you can get very close to the hardware
16:15 <@Twinaphex> no need for boutique fashionista FPGA peddlers
16:15 <@Twinaphex> to create some snob appeal product
16:16 < Karlton> how does one avoid getting sued by nintendo for recreating their hardware and selling it
16:16 <@Twinaphex> being closed source and pretending you are doing everything completely clean room
16:16 < Karlton> I guess the patents expired or something
16:17 <@Twinaphex> and FPGA in and of itself is composed of people taking the piss with ‘our own inventions'
16:17 <@Twinaphex> there is a lot of code laundering
16:17 <@Twinaphex> and just plain thievery
16:17 <@Twinaphex> and then disguising it as ‘written all from scratch'
16:17 <@Twinaphex> because I think the law is not clear on this
16:17 <@Twinaphex> atari age talekd about that at some point
16:17 <@Twinaphex> you can take software, put it on hardware
16:17 <@Twinaphex> and then copyrights and licenses don’t apply
16:17 <@Twinaphex> or something
16:17 <@Twinaphex> not sure if I remember it correctly
16:18 <@Twinaphex> but that could explain a lot of the stuff you see
16:18 < enygmata> Karlton: i think copyright allows that as long as you don't use the vendor's stuff
16:18 <@Twinaphex> basically I am not going to judge
16:18 <@Twinaphex> considering I just care about getting the job done
16:18 <@Twinaphex> so it doens’t matter to me whether something is clean room
16:18 <@Twinaphex> or not
16:18 < Tatsuya79> it's made of magic (don't ask)
16:18 <@Twinaphex> it’s just that technically
16:19 <@Twinaphex> none of this stuff - including emulators
16:19 <@Twinaphex> is really 100% legal
16:19 <@Twinaphex> then again companies don’t care
16:19 <@Twinaphex> and these same companies don’t do much legal stuff either
16:19 <@Twinaphex> witness skirting the gambling laws with lootboxes
16:19 <@Twinaphex> and just relying on legal loopholes to get away withit
16:19 < enygmata> Karlton: think something like free software flash implementations. (except in flash case the license restricts tthe dev more than just copyright law)
16:19 <@Twinaphex> so there is no honor among thieves anyway
16:19 <@Twinaphex> so why bother trying to do things completely by the book
16:20 <@Twinaphex> when everybody just talks a big game but everybody’s actions tells a different story
16:20 <@Twinaphex> so yeah I am pragmatic like that
16:20 <@Twinaphex> if people had relied on clean room N64 reversing
16:20 <@Twinaphex> we still wouldn’t have had a single N64 game running by now
16:21 <@Twinaphex> so yeah
16:21 <@Twinaphex> no point in wasting time like that
[TLDR - "we will sell our FPGA console when someone else will made cores for it for free" - retroarchleaks]
Wednesday, 2017-12-06
15:49 <@DanteAli> to be honest I stll dislike how they are poaching devs left and right and then just making their own emulators like this
[Context: NVIDIA will sell Nintendo games in China - retroarchleaks]
15:49 < radius> you can't poach people
15:49 <@DanteAli> then again it makes it even more clear what I need to do for my own project
15:49 < radius> and they say it's a port
15:49 <@DanteAli> that official console will happen now
15:50 <@DanteAli> no emulation?
15:50 <@DanteAli> why do they need all those JIT engineers then that they hired?
15:50 <@DanteAli> and why does the transgaming guy talk about him participating in it?
15:50 <@DanteAli> the original code was powerpc
15:51 <@DanteAli> you’d have to pretty much convert that to ARM
15:51 <@DanteAli> only way to do that is emulation or recompilation
15:51 < radius> could be emulation, it makes no difference.
15:51 <@DanteAli> anyway - looking at it objectively
15:51 <@DanteAli> Mario Galaxy without waggle would be a better game
15:51 <@DanteAli> same with Twilight Princess
15:51 <@DanteAli> the motion controls sucked
15:51 <@DanteAli> but if this is going to stay just in China though
15:52 <@DanteAli> not really going to make much of a drop
15:52 <@DanteAli> maybe the Switch ports will be more exciting
15:52 < Tatsuya79> they'll do that next probably
15:52 < radius> I don't think that means they are poaching people, lots of people are happy to land a job on a company like that, I would to be honest and I was asked for a resume, obviously I don't have the skillset so it didn't happen.
15:53 <@DanteAli> well let’s not pursue this conversation since it led to people fighting earlier yesterday
15:53 <@DanteAli> I said what I had to say about it
<@DanteAli> I will just start to pursue my own interests then and will no longer hold back on an official RA console
15:53 <@DanteAli> going to try seeing what we can set up there with Ntemis
15:53 <@DanteAli> and some other guys
15:56 <@DanteAli> I think it’s best to wait until the SoCs arrive with vulkan support
15:57 <@DanteAli> I’d like a vulkan and GL ecosystem on such a console
15:57 <@DanteAli> GLES 3.1 and Vulkan would be advanced enough
Libretro LLC (2018-2019, Dissolved)
Name: Libretro LLC
SOS Control #000942380
Filing Type: Limited Liability Company - Domestic
Formation Locale: TENNESSEE
Date Formed: 01/19/2018
[Libretro LLC was formed on 19th January 2018 by Hunter "hunterk/hizzlekizzle" Kaller. Tennessee Business Services Division, local copy of filing info. - retroarchleaks]
[Image source: /emugen/ – retroarchleaks]
Tuesday, 2018-02-13
DanteAli> honestly
DanteAli> game devs are pure dumb
DanteAli> for not having realized the significance of RA by now
DanteAli> and how it could be used
DanteAli> for their own real games
DanteAli> I guess we need to do more shameless marketing
DanteAli> I want to start earning money
DanteAli> big money
DanteAli> with libretro LLC
DanteAli> we deserve it
DanteAli> we power 95% of this goddamn bullshit subindustry
DanteAli> it's OUR industry
DanteAli> where everybody but us makes a single buck
Saturday, 2018-09-08
16:43 <bparker#0210> why do you care so much about what everyone else is doing? if you're so angry at other people making money, ship something yourself and quit worrying about other people.
16:44 <Autechre#6315> > why do you care so much about what everyone else is doing? if you're so angry at other people making money, ship something yourself and quit worrying about other people.
16:44 <Autechre#6315> yeah easy for you to say
16:44 <Autechre#6315> a Dutch guy having to figure out how the entire US corporate game works
16:45 <Autechre#6315> with zero support
16:45 <Autechre#6315> it took 9 months even to get a fucking bank account sorted, and it's STILL not sorted
16:45 <Autechre#6315> they are STILL dragging their feet
16:45 <Autechre#6315> without being a scamartist and overpromising shit you don't even have
16:45 <Autechre#6315> you get nowhere in America
16:45 <Autechre#6315> it's all about being a Trumpian scam artist apparently
16:45 <Autechre#6315> and that gets rewarded
Monday, 2018-09-10
19:46 <Autechre#6315> we might be one of the few ones actually not making any money off RetroArch
[Autechre himself pockets ~750$ monthly from patreon - retroarchleaks]
19:46 <Autechre#6315> and in reality it's our fault really
19:47 <Autechre#6315> when we do start selling preflashed SD cards I'm sure we will be judged for it
19:47 <Autechre#6315> even though millions of entrepreneurs came before us
20:17 <Autechre#6315> we will start some small stuff though
20:17 <Autechre#6315> there are plans for preflashed SD cards for retroarch for certain devices like a raspberry pi - but it won't come with noncommercial cores for obvious reasons
20:17 <Autechre#6315> and there are plans for some merch
20:19 <Autechre#6315> my main concerns is just keeping the project alive and vibrant, continuing to make it grow
20:20 <Autechre#6315> and personally I think it's only fair that if so many in the retro industry now monetize retroarch in one way or another
20:20 <Autechre#6315> that the actual creators find ways to sell their own stuff too
20:20 <Autechre#6315> hence the decision to start with stuff like preflashed sd cards
20:20 <Autechre#6315> I didn't want to do this for years but considering where we are at now - it would just be borderline stupid and self-defeating to the project not to do it
[On the 18th April 2019, Libretro LLC status was changed to 'Active - Dissolved'. At first, I thought it was because of not filed 'Annual Report', but later it turned out that in April another Libretro company was registered, in the Netherlands - retroarchleaks]
Bounty drama: Patreon - April 2019 ($310)
[January - April, $5400 from Patreons (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). BountySource screenshots was made on 29 Apr 2019 - retroarchleaks]
Libretro LLC Second Edition (2019-)
[Second Libretro company was opened in the Netherlands by D.R.J. De Matteis on 12th April 2019. Official details by Kamer van Koophandel (Dutch chamber of commerce) are unfortunately behind a paywall, so I will use data from bedrijvenmonitor.info (Company Monitor).
['Iconic' business headquarter.]
[Google translated history of changes.
New Libretro bussiness is owned by one person. I think main reason why it was created was to release RetroArch on Steam. (Store Release Date: Q3 2019, at the moment of writing this paragraph). Secondarily, it cut out Hunter 'SP did nothing wrong' Kaller from Libretro business matters. I guess, he wasn't that happy with being an agent for the old company. All information about Libretro finances is controlled by Autechre/TwinAphex now.]
Link
[Wait! Ads?]
[Forbidden!]
[Autechre/TwinAphex added them around 6th June 2019.]
[When I linked commit which added ads to retroarch.com on 4chan, Autechre/TwinAphex set http://www.retroarch.com GitHub repository to private in, like, two minutes, like he did something wrong...]
[...but few minutes later he defended ads with his usual 'logic'. No, I didn't checked their men page, thank you for doing that, and for years you used ads on Dolphin page as a big stick to bash Dolphin devs.]
['Solid return on investment', 'cloud service', ads, Patreon, Libretro LLC.]
[All those enterprises will be controlled by one person. All profits will go into one pocket.]
'Hand that feeds'
Monday, 2019-06-03
[After 'Let's aim for a healthier emudev community. We don't trust TwinAphex to run libretro/RA anymore.'/ 'X-post from r/emudev "We don't trust Twinaphex anymore"' reddit debate/shitshow started by skmp Libretro Team needed some positive 'emudev' PR.]
[Good move. Someone (m4xw/hunterk?) eventually convinced Autechre/TwinAphex that his 'none of these emulator makers are ever going to get a single cent from me' should end. After all, it's patrons money.]
[Of course Autechre/TwinAphex was convinced that $10 per month will be enough to bribe/silence recipients. Anyway, month later byuu shared some of his concerns about RetroArch on reddit, Autechre/TwinAphex replied with list of things he did for byuu, forgetting about his 'byuu' irc/discord/4chan statements. Yes, he still whines about byuu on 4chan. Byuu then gave up his $10, for, I guess, peace of mind.]
Bounty drama: Patreon - August 2019 ($400)
[May - August, $5250 from Patreons (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). Screenshot was made on 30 Aug 2019 - retroarchleaks]
Friday, 2019-07-05
Bounty drama: Patreon - December 2019 ($0)
[September - December, $5100 from Patreons (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). Screenshot was made on 30 Dec 2019 - retroarchleaks]
[Zero dollars for bounties, but Autechre got another toy: 2080 Ti - retroarchleaks]
Bounty drama: Patreon - April 2020 ($100)
[January - April, $4600 from Patreons (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). Screenshot was made on 29 Apr 2020 - retroarchleaks]
[Top 7 accounts from previous months disappeared from 'Backers' list, making impossible any comparisons. I hope Bountysource will fix it in the future - retroarchleaks]
[Fixed 'Backers' list, with $100 added by twinaphex. Screenshot was made on 18 Jun 2020 - retroarchleaks- retroarchleaks]
Bounty drama: Patreon - August 2020 ($25)
[May - August, $4000 from Patreons (minus Patreon fee) (source of the amount: graphtreon.com). Screenshot was made on 29 Aug 2020 - retroarchleaks]
RetroArchLeaks 